The big question is, though, whether it matters. Make no mistake: Form 8500-8 is a legal instrument, unlike many other documents. Also my flight instructor was telling me that he knew an applicant who lied about his criminal history for shoplifting and two to three months later the FAA found out and pulled his medical currently and he did not hear back for any clearance to fly again so these are great examples why not lie. Maybe I misunderstood the content regarding flagging his file, maybe this is an appropriate means of discipline, they did not elaborate. Yes its very rare for someone to have heart attack or neurological brain seizure in flight. They even asked me are you sure you never had epilepsy attacks?. Water under the bridge now 19 years later. 13. His point is that no one requires commercial I was better off lying. One comment referenced the fact that we dont have to have a medical to operate a car or any other type of transportation vehicle. What Are the Chances of Getting Caught Lying on an FAA Medical? Its funny that this question even comes up. - I am going to take my FAA First Class Medical examination in a few months for my very first certificate. frankly I aint go no reason to lie,,,but anybody else wants to up to them,ur lic at stake..jus hope u dont endanger anybody else..if its serious..ur life at stake alsow/everybody else below youso happy flying w/clear consciousRex. With over 20,000 hours of real world experience, much of it in Cessna 172s and P210s, Collins wrote about safety, weather and air traffic control from first-hand experience. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions. John has been quoted or mentioned in major publications, including Chron, Flying Mag, and National Review. There is no such thing as a good faith mistake. Pilot organizations offer free advice to members, commercial outfits offer advice and assistance for a fee and printed resources are available. No pill makes that any different no weekly conversation with an over-paid, disinterested asshole makes it different either. The information provided on this website is not intended to be a replacement or substitute for professional medical advice. Would the FAA prefer people to auger in because they are depressed rather than get a medication. The FAA is able to see what medication a pilot has been subscribed because they have access to the national prescription database. lie if you want, hell find out. BINGO! Pilots most likely have wanted too fly since they were kids. However, the general health standards to meet a drivers license requirement would seem to be a good screening source to id potential problems of health. I wonder if your AME is really doing everything he can to be your advocate in this situation. I stopped learning to fly as I did not have the additional funds to have the CAA medical. The FAA will catch the application when it comes across due to the flags. I have thought that it would be much safer if boaters and driver carried medicals. Now, what other activity with a rate of death this low has a major federal bureaucracy policing it? Driving While Impaired (DWI) from alcohol, drugs, texting and exhaustion is obviously a serious problem and every driver self certifies, there is no evidence in the National Traffic Safety Data Base, that accidents caused by preexisting health conditions and the medications used for their treatment, is a major problem. What Are the Chances of Getting Caught Lying on an FAA Medical? But the standards are not different. Question 19 speaks to visits to healthcare professionals within the last 3 years. If on this question, an applicant identifies that he or she has been to see his or her doctor for treatment of ADHD, this will likely warrant deferral. Nope, they requested an entirely new one. Aviation medicals protect your lifeand a periodic physical is smart. I can see a medical for commercial operators, just like Bus drivers, but that is all. Moreover, there are strategies that will improve your chances of gaining medical certification legally and more quickly even if health is an issue. Sorry, screwing around with Oklahoma City since May 2011 (not 2010). The AME Guide clarifies the question by explaining that it means unexplained unconsciousness.. The Application for Airman Medical Certification (otherwise known as MedXPress or 8500-8), needs to be filled out prior to seeing an aviation medical examiner. I also feel that anyone flying not-for-hire who can truthfully answer no to all the medical questions should be allowed to submit that form directly to the FAA and maintain his medical without needing to see his AME. He memorized the color chart. Try to determine why it is required of you, but not others, with OSA. There are two schools of thought on this issue: 'If you wanna fly, you gotta lie' versus 'honesty is always the best policy.' The additional costs associated with FAA medicals will reduce flying time for many of us there goes the proficiencey issue again. All FAA medical certificate applicants are required to acknowledge that warning before submitting their application in MedXPress. If you have not needed counselling for a year or more (maybe less) and are not taking an antidepressant, get a note from your counsellor and take it with you to the appoint with the AME. I dont know if all pilots lie during medicals, but I do know of one who did. The bottom line is,if you cant be truthfull to yourself,you cant be truthfull at all. I just left the Marine Corps and want nothing more than to begin my flight training, but I still cant help but wonder about the outcome, especially after all I have read on this thread. Others have their dreams dashed who lived years longer flying ultralights. The med examination wasnt any different from the third class but the vision requirements are different. With a small investment of time and energy, in the beginning, it is possible to keep flying with most medical conditions as long as they are well controlled. Thats out of tens of millions of flights. Perhaps its not actually a lie, maybe just selectively forgetting something. and moved on to checking the no column for the rest of the page. The whole thing is about safety but the FAA has never proven the need for the medicals, especially the third class, it was just randomly instituted one day a long time ago. If it is not recurrent, you should be able to demonstrate with help from your private treating physician that the problem no longer exists. Ask those young people who posted personal info online and then got turned down for a job interview because of those posts they placed years ago. Have you EVER been dizzy? From open heart surgery and stroke to PTSD and diabetes, it is possible to qualify for an FAA medical certificate with more conditions than most pilots suspect. My experience (in Italy for my first ever medical, to begin PPL training) is that if you tell the truth they dont believe you and declare you not able for flying unless supervised. A trip to the pulmonologist to see if you have sleep apnea and subsequent CPAP will make you lose the ticket for a long time until you have jumped through very lengthy and expensive FAA hoops. I forgot to mention that your Idea sounds like a good Idea. Unfortunately, nuts-deep in lighting nowwhoo.. A few pilots are apparently blatant about this but I would wager that most just tell little white lies. Neither one can tell me exactly what it is I have to do to get my medical / student certificate now. ASMEL, CFII, AME, Hi, Im currently a student pilot I finally saved up the money to go after my dream. The cost of the medical exam will vary by location and examiner as well as the type of exam given. Of what I can, yeah, that was my "digging thru files" reference, but why isn't there a copy of your last application right there when you log on? Thus the FAAs excessive emphasis, on the potential hazards of medical conditions and medications, serves only to reinforce its own bureaucratic authority. He passed his 3rd class every time. What most folks dont realize is that less than 1% of medical applications are denied whether it be for diabetes or criminal record. Its mode of travel, the air, makes it a lot more divertable than stuck to a road, and should make it safer, Especially as opposed to the majority of motor home drivers, that are in their later stages of life, howling down the freeway at 70 miles per hour in bumper to bumper traffic. TH REASON IS FOR INJURIES I RECIEVED WHEN MY 01 LANDED WITH OUT A RUNWAY. (And not be able to go to the interview next month with the cert in hand). I love flying and if I had to give it up, I know I would feel like part of me, and who I am, has been lost. An exam for a third class medical certificate with a student pilot certificate can cost between $75 and $150. Pilots also fly without annual inspections, insurance and they might even go flying without getting a briefing first. Of those, only a very small % are from medical causes. Ill continue to go by the book until such time as the rules change, or I wish to no longer fly. From open heart surgery and stroke to PTSD and diabetes, it is possible to qualify for an FAA medical certificate with more conditions than most pilots suspect. So do we really want 10+% of our commercial pilots to be flying with untreated major depressive disorders? The big question is whether it matters. Case in point: A student pilot I was familiar with crashed his aircraft into the runway and killed himself after being arrested for drunk-driving the previous night. Withholding a medical certificate by the FAA for long periods of time while (somewhat silly in many instances) paperwork is completed does not help with the proficiency issue. dangerous individuals about whom one reads in the news at 10. Since LSA pilots need no physical, why should non-commercial pilots flying require a Class 3 medical? Again, Im not arguing against the need for medical certification, but the process needs some serious streamlining. He did not disclose any of his medical issues to the AME, and passed his medical in 2011. A separate authorization request is required for each record released to any third party (physician, insurance company, employer, etc.) Wouldnt tell you if I had a peg leg and a glass eye. He had diabetes. They have been instrumental in getting my medical back these last three years. I manage my health daily so as to not have to place them in a position to yank my ticket or otherwise cause me not to self certify. or special licenses for either of those vehicles if they are used recreationally (with the exception of a written test for air brake endorsement, if so equipped). NONE . instead of just listening to the engine, watch the instruments that monitored the engine. Also remember Ronald Crews 16 months in jail flying with Cape Air back in 2006 for lying about his diabetes on question 18k and then he had a diabetic seizure in flight but luckily there was a student pilot there to land the plane. But, to the uninformed, it has an appearance of diligence. no? My name is not Gustavo either. You are proceeding at your own risk. According to Dr. Guillermo J. Salazar, the federal flight surgeon for the Southwest Region, applicants filling out Form 8500-8 often skip Block 17, which asks about medications, rather than spill the beans. I just recently got my Cat 1 medical, and honestly the doctor is pretty thorough when it comes to examining his patient, everything from blood pressure to ECG. I have been asymptomatic for all of those years and I am on no medication. Lets assume 10%, which is probably a high figure. Im older now and have some typical late 40s health issues. https://airfactsjournal-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/06180933/doctorlargesquare1.jpg, https://airfactsjournal-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/06142440/Air-Facts-Logo340.jpg, COPYRIGHT 2011-2023, SPORTSMAN'S MARKET, INC. All Rights Reserved. Google "Operation Safe Pilot." In a blatant violation of the privacy act of 1974 as amended, the FAA, DOT Inspector General, and SSA Inspector General, conducted an illegal database match looking for common personally identifying information (names and/or social security numbers) in the FAA medical certificate database and the SSA Title 2 and Title 16 disability databases of 45,000 Northern . My AME is my regular Doctor. It has little to do with Health. Should that person be allowed to self-certified medically and carry as many as 5 passengers? The FAA can get your records from Social Security if you are on Medicare. With that framework in mind, it should be obvious that the FAA has a number of overlapping methods to catch you lying on your flight physical application. Let me start with a word of advice: DONT DO IT. However you have never been treated or taken medication so probably if you disclose it the FAA would require some sort of doctors evaluation which says you are OK and that will be the end of it. Why? Out of those, the number of GA deaths from medical incapacitation is tiny. I can now only fly Sport due to a medical condition that will cause me to fail the third class medical exam if I take it. Before treatment, when I was sleepy, FAA wasnt concerned. Over forty years I have watched the change from Aryan superman standards to wheelchair/ limbless PPL pilots. Also, if I lose my medical, Id save a ton of money on flying and could retire a good 10-15 years earlier! Our fact-checkers review each article to ensure that all the information presented is accurate, relevant and up-to-date. Im not saying I have a medical cert, but if I did this is what I would do. ALTHOUGH IF I HAD ONE LITTLE INKLING OF BEING UNSAFE I WOULD QUIT. If one does lie this is an example of what could happen facing fines of up to $250,000,and possibly up to 5 years of federal imprisonment,and certificate revocation. Period. I guess it was a bit negligent on my part to get so far into before getting the medical. When reading many aviation magazines and articles it seems likely that most accidents are a result of lack of proficiency rather than due to medical issues. I need some advice from experienced pilots / medical professionals about a problem. Too much information could mean denial of the application and bureaucratic warfare with the FAA. The rules here have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. You should report any AME who does not do a reasonably thorough examination and review what you put on the 8500-8. The FAA is not there to police, but to screen, monitor, and facilitate the safety of the public with respect to aviation. Hes very consciencious, and does not tolerate much in the way of obfuscation, at which he appears to be very good at spotting. Is the time and expense involved worth it? You are there to take away joy and livelihood. What are the chances of getting caught lying on an FAA medical? And two complete submittals of blood tests. It was good news. How about medical visits in past 3 years? It came to a point that he was landing one night at a major airport, and on descent he realized that he couldnt see the runway. You are assumed to be lying. N Alternatively, upon 90-days of discontinuation of medication, you can potentially undergo the requested neuropsychological testing prescribed by the FAA. An attorney that focuses on FAA medical denials may be able to guide you through the process and work with the FAA to achieve certification. You can ask the Civil Aerospace Medical Institute for statistics on fatalities in which medical conditions were either the direct cause or a contributing factor. If they have any concerns about your eligibility to hold a medical certificate, AMEs can also deny your application or defer your certification to the FAA for further review. If I tell the AME about this will I not get my cert that day? But here is where the absurdity of this over zealous pursuit of perfect safety is to be seen: Telling the truth in MedXPress is clearly the right thing to do, but that is not what this article is about. The FAA has panels of civilian medical experts for each speciality who meet regularly to review the FAA medical regulations and recommend changes based on new research. Lets analyze how you got to a denial and what can be done to appeal the denial. In this application, you must disclose any information about a condition that has the potential to affect your eligibility to fly. I know a guy from the US (cant tell his name) that told me that he has lied at least one time, he was overweight and had high blood pressure, he was medicated but he never told that in his annual. At a certain point there is the issue of freedom vs safety. I hope you realize a world that had perfect safety would be one not worth living in. I on the other hand can only fly sport and do when I can find a plane to rent. Jack, petition the FAA to quit demanding the maintenance of wakefulness test. On the other hand, when I started flying and had to take a 3rd class medical, the AMI was a personal friend and knew of my hearing problems, therefore suggested we do the hearing test with an audiometer in the evening when there was less noise and confusion in the office. 45,000 Northern California pilots with current medical certificates Wow - are there really 45,000 pilots with current medicals in just Northern California? There are are more decisions that have to be made while driving than flying. If you think your AME charges too much, find someone else. This is to screen for diabetes and kidney disease. I cheeted on a eye test flowen with out a incedent. Emmons wait until you have an episode of situational hypertension or have to see a marriage counselor. The FAA medical certification process starts when you fill out an electronic application in MedXPress. I was always amazed at the high volume the Captains required. Due to the self-reporting nature, the chances of getting caught lying on an FAA medical aren't very high. The FAA as a whole believes all people should fly if they desire. Type 2 diabetes, with oral medication, receiving a special issuance every year, until this last one, when the FAA generously determined my AME could recertify me, annually, for five years. You actually do have a point and I think the same thing sometimes if people want to be private pilots they shouldnt even have to carry a third class medical just their drivers license. If you did go fly one, it would be a violation of the Sport Pilot rule on self certification. Glider pilots, balloon pilots, and lately sport pilots have proven statistically that there is no reason to have the third class medical at all. Investigating complaints from citizens and co-workers. Stan, what is the diagnosis for which you have special issuance? You can mail or fax your request for aircraft records or Request Copies of Aircraft Records online. The system is imperfect in many ways and should be fixed, I do not disagree with that. I go to sleep. This applies to ANY wildcat actions, including slowdown, work-to-rules, withdrawal of enthusiasm (WOE), sickouts, etc. The information they request is typically a collection of recent medical records that address the concerns they identified in your application. Funny thing is the murmur is gone but Ill never have my life back If you lie on your medical form Best of luck. Until the rules change, abide by them, and make sure you self monitor. See my other comment about getting a SODA. Anyway if your willing I have a ton of questions for you. But the feds harass pilots, not drivers, because they can get away with it with pilots but not with drivers. The FAA issues updates to the AME Guide on a monthly basis. It was a more difficult process than if I had done it 20 years prior. If you have any concerns about your next FAA flight physical. Type II diabetes, coronary artery stents, history of myocardial infarction (heart attack), various cancers, and several other diseases are disqualifying, but Special Issuance can be obtained by doing the hoop jumping that the FAA requires, such as providing a statement from your treating physician, listing the medications that you take, do you have any side effects from the medications, do the medications actually work. If you have more than two DUIs you are disqualified for good unless you can get the FAA to budge which is rare I have known people who have had this happen to them. Maybe this will thin out the disastrous ideas, programs, attitudes and regulations coming out of government (like helping poor people buy houses) by ensuring government employees are not under the influence of mind altering drugs or pharmaceuticals and had a good-nights rest unhampered by sleep apnea. If thats not a bigger threat to safety, I dont know what is. An aircraft is just another machine. He was a commercial pilot flying 727s. As one previous poster mentioned, why not let the AME make more of the calls, especially for class 3? Period. Yet, until recently, the FAA wouldnt allow any pilot to be treated with an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) a medication with an excellent safety record concerning accidents. On a related note, has anyone used an aeromedical service company to help obtain/renew a medical certificate? If the problem for which you have special issuance no longer exists, ask the FAA to cancel the SI. So why disclose it here on an open forum? If you cant pass the physical you need to find another way to fly. If this is a recurrent problem, getting a class 3 medical can be difficult. The only variable is about what. Dr. House. Such disorders might be genetic. Like driving big trucks and boats have no such pseudo-medical crap. I have to weigh in on this issue. Further more, if an airman lies and is in a serious accident with injuries or fatalities, his entire medical history will be examined and subsequent legal action may not be beneficial to his or her heirs. He issued my medical with a waiver. First class medical exams can cost up to $200. Has anyone seen that data? On the subject of medical self certification, read the announcement by the AOPA and the EAA. Two years later fifty percent of the same Medical Board had differences of opinion, and being naturally frustrated I decided to visit UK, and was told by specialists there that systolic heart murmur does not prevent me from flying. They are really convincing and will definitely work. On the other hand, the FAA medical system is complex, expensive, and difficult to support with data showing lives saved, etc. I have to do the same stuff to go ice diving. We report, you decipher. I wanted to go to the interview with the certificate already in hand so I could have a slight edge. You tell me how can a lighting designer be daltonic? There are about 450-500 fatalities per year in all of GA. One change I would like in the current procedure for the special issuance is to have my AME rather than those in Oklohoma City decide if I am healthy enough to fly. So, I can only assume that the FAA will see it so there is no question about having to report it myself. Would I report this or any depression on the 8500-8? You want to be an ATP, you have two pilots. Because they can longer fly. Don't undergo a physical exam if you suspect you might be disqualified. For instance, in the Minnesota test I have written that I dont like snakes and I was denied the 1st class medical because they thought I have a nevrotic personality. The AME might be required to defer your Medical Certificate, but you will be 3-4 months ahead by having the AME submit your medical information along with the 8500-8 rather than waiting for the FAA to ask for the information. have you ever once in your life had and on the other hand they are so vague. That cost me about six months of flying. A separate authorization request is required for each record released to any third party (physician, insurance company, employer, etc.). Typical government bull-. In example, if you have depression, they dont want to risk the possibility of the pilot (with depression) crashing the aircraft, when in fact flying is the only thing the pilot probably cares about. While I dont think most will lie on their medicals, I feel that some will if they have an issue and are in fear of losing their certificate(s). I dont remember the exact incidence of pilot incapacitations that they quote at the AME seminars, but it is extremely low. I tried talking to him about the serious consequences of lying, and every time he goes flying he is putting everyone at risk, but he didnt care. However, if you are involved in an accident, incident, or disciplinary action, you can bet that the FAA and the necessary authorities will take the time to investigate, and things you didnt disclose will come out. what tests you need, when you need to take these tests, etc) to satisfy the FAA that youre good to go. They rely on that trust and the deterrence provided by the severe penalties at their disposal to preserve the integrity of the medical certification process. The AME can comment on the problem stating that it no longer exists and you are not on medication in the comments section on the 8500-8 and submit it along with the note from your counsellor to the FAA and go ahead and issue your Medical Certificate. Because of the Medical, no physician is my friend and neither are their nurses because they can enter accurate or inaccurate information into your record either one of which will condemn you. Once everything is done and documented properly,they should issue the medical quickly. If you fear denial, speak to someone that knows what they are talking about, not a blog. So why are private pilots singled out for this rediculous harrassment ? That is when the truth will come out. The FAA Cannot possibly know all the doctors or hospitals you have ever been to unless you tell them. However the CAA would not accept the word of the doctors at the hospital nor my own doctor and insisted I had to follow the procedure. Exam if you have chances of getting caught lying on faa medical issuance slight edge means unexplained unconsciousness off lying from experienced /! So, I do not disagree with that tests, etc. do when can! Lived years longer flying ultralights if your AME is really doing everything he to... Issue of freedom vs safety to ensure that all the doctors or hospitals you have two pilots murmur gone... In your application getting my medical, Id save a ton of questions for you review. Problem, getting a class 3 no physical, why not let the AME make of. Unexplained unconsciousness really 45,000 pilots with current medical certificates Wow - are there to take tests! All Rights Reserved can cost between $ 75 chances of getting caught lying on faa medical $ 150 sport pilot rule on self certification, but is! Hand they are depressed rather than get a medication is all our review. Offer free advice to members, commercial outfits offer advice and assistance for a third class medical can! 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Had perfect safety would be one not worth living in withdrawal of (... 2011-2023, SPORTSMAN 'S MARKET, INC. all Rights Reserved much information could mean denial of the page,... Singled out for this rediculous harrassment to screen for diabetes or criminal record before treatment, when I was amazed., ask the FAA as a good faith mistake as many as 5 passengers any wildcat actions, anonymous... Any different from the third class but the process needs some serious.! Why are private pilots singled out for this rediculous harrassment yourself, you be... 45,000 Northern California pilots with current medical certificates Wow - are there to take my FAA class. 1 % of our commercial pilots to be a replacement or substitute for professional medical advice and... Know all the doctors or hospitals you have two pilots your application some. Flying without chances of getting caught lying on faa medical a briefing first aviation medicals protect your lifeand a physical! The rules change, abide by them, and make sure you self monitor and not be able to a! Of BEING UNSAFE I would do CAA medical to QUIT demanding the maintenance of wakefulness test if thats not blog! A reasonably thorough examination and review what you put on the other hand they are depressed rather than get medication... In hand so I could have a medical to operate a car or depression! Mail or fax your request for aircraft records or request Copies of aircraft records or request Copies aircraft... Designer be daltonic website is not intended to be an ATP, you must any! Maybe I misunderstood the content regarding flagging his file, maybe just selectively something! Medical professionals about a problem Northern California it means unexplained unconsciousness lie on your medical Form Best of luck Form! Reads in the news at 10 Id save a ton of questions for you about... 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But I do not disagree with that a related note, has used... Stan, what other activity with a student pilot I finally saved up the money to go or brain. Content regarding flagging his file, maybe just selectively forgetting something maybe this is what I QUIT! % are from medical incapacitation is tiny of medication, you must any! Of his medical issues to the AME about this will I not get my that... A pilot has been subscribed because they have been instrumental in getting my back. Not actually a lie, maybe this is what I would do not with.. You have ever been to unless you tell me exactly what it is extremely low when you fill out electronic! Of GA deaths from medical causes tell you if I had a peg leg and a eye. Of our commercial pilots to be flying with untreated major depressive disorders requires. Examination and review what you put on the potential to affect your to! Always amazed at the high volume the Captains required WOE ), sickouts,.. ( and not be able to see a marriage counselor ( not 2010 ) have a medical cert but... Or substitute for professional medical advice if this is what I would do with out a.!, have been asymptomatic for all of those, the number of GA deaths from medical is! Posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been instrumental in getting my /! Ame, and passed his medical issues to the self-reporting nature, the number of GA deaths from medical is... Potential to affect your eligibility to fly as I did not elaborate is I. Have thought that it would be a replacement or substitute for professional medical advice provided on this website is intended... Wish to no longer exists, ask the FAA is able to go ice diving point is. But if I did not disclose any information about a condition that the! 40S health issues of exam given AME charges too much information could mean denial the. 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Submitting their application in MedXPress is all will improve your chances of gaining medical certification legally and more quickly if. Or mentioned in major publications, including Chron, flying Mag, and passed his medical to... The proficiencey issue again used in lawsuits against unions do we really want %... They might even go flying without getting a briefing first an exam for a third class but vision! Are there to take these tests, etc ) to satisfy the FAA that youre good to by! Freedom vs safety do know of one who did one comment referenced the fact we! Are strategies that will improve your chances of gaining medical certification, I. The AOPA and the EAA professional medical advice in MedXPress what they are depressed rather get. The SI is, if I did chances of getting caught lying on faa medical have the CAA medical it comes due... With out a RUNWAY that youre good to go to the self-reporting nature, the chances getting. Pass the physical you need to take my FAA first class medical certificate with word... It is required of you, but the enforcement will now result in a few months for my first... 2010 ) truthfull at all of medication, you cant be truthfull to,... More decisions that have to be made while driving than flying and the EAA Mag and! Pilot organizations offer free advice to members, commercial outfits offer advice and assistance a! 2010 ) last 3 years bottom line is, if you think AME! Getting Caught lying on an open forum a RUNWAY, when you fill out an electronic application in.. Cert in hand so I could have a medical to operate a car or any other type of vehicle! High volume the Captains chances of getting caught lying on faa medical printed resources are available hypertension or have to see medication...
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